It’s highly unlikely that they reached 300,000. Only a couple of days before I first heard the 300,000 mentioned, there had been several reports that they were well behind where they would have needed to be by deadline. Danielle as well as her UCP party and all the separatism proponents, lie more easily than they breathe. Having repeatedly seen lies and disinformation from all of them, I feel no need to give them the benefit of the doubt, they don’t deserve it.
The petition I signed requested your address and phone and email ... the email was like you signed with a pen. What you are describing is called "PROPAGANDA" during war time situation. During war, it is not what is being said that counts but the actions going on around us that speak for itself. I'm old so please bare with me. Canadians are CAPUTURED. We have had an ECONOMIC COUP D'eTAT. We are being bankrupted by design. It will become so evident soon enough so stand by for the truth because TRUTH always wins. Be Blessed.
Patricia Bowman: Electronic fraud didn't exist long ago. That stolen voters list made a bunch of problems we do not need. The UCP have to be sacked. Unfit to govern.
I sent an email to elections Alberta asking if my name is on that list. It should not be.
Somewhat coincidental that the release of the voters list, fitting in with 10X the vote having electors lists as one of their main tactics. Add TBA Davis Parker's disdain for the law and I will not accept their number until each name, not a percentage, each name is verified.
They aren't even counting or confirming the signatures. So there's no way to ever know if your name or even mine was used. And for Smith to say that "I have 700,000 citizens" grouping the Forever Canadian Petition in with their claim is more misleading and outright gaslighting.
There list until until validated is worthless. Having accessing to electoral list and having displayed zero respect for Elections Alberta nor laws, names could have been forged. I would out nothing past them as they have zero integrity..
Indeed, this manufactured momentum is a well-established rightwing tactic when they know they cannot win on most issues. They hack our system by pushing "direct democracy" and stealing the electoral list, instead of running a separatist party in an election -- which they know they can never win.
And the UCP has deliberately supported this backdoor abuse of process every step of the way, because they know they would also lose an election over separation.
Yet, as you point out, most of the media have neither critically examined nor even acknowledged the separatist claim of "the 300k."
Even more distressing is Premier Smith's claim that she must listen to not only the 300k, but the 400k Forever Canada verified signatures.
These people wanted to PREVENT a referendum, yet she drags them in, asserting that "700,000 Albertans want a referendum" -- one of the most insidious, blatant lies ever uttered by a Canadian politician.
This is as Trump as it gets.
But even CBC allows Premier Smith to gaslight the country on this 700k number without challenge.
We are merely in the earliest stage of this referendum, yet it's already not hard to imagine how Brexit happened.
The media need to step up their game and identify disinformation, because it's coming for us hard and fast.
So far, indie journalist Jen Gerson is a leading voice saying the quiet parts out loud.
The Forever Canada petition literally asks for a referendum vote. If 400,000 people didn't read what they signed, that's on them. Their names are on it.
Your characterisation of Sylvestre's assertions as "disinformation" and not "misinformation" is accurate. Misinformation is information that is not entirely accurate. Disinformation is deliberate mistruth (ie: false). Whether Sylvestre actually truly believes what he says is irrelevant. The only relevant information is what is actually the case.
As to verification of the signatures, the recent Court decision prohibits the Office of the Chief Electoral Officer from engaging in that process. Were the Office able to proceed on the process, it would do so by selecting names on the peition at random and contacting the signatories to confirm whether they did indeed sign it. The Office does not have the resources to check every name, nor does it have the resources to check whether any particular name is on the petition. That is, if I were to ask the Office whether my name was on the petition, the Office cannot go through all 300,000+ names and, even if it did, the legislation prohibits it from doing that.
The only way the Office could determine whether there has been any falsification of signatures is if any of the seeded names from the voters list turns up on the petition.
The inability of the Office of the Chief Electoral Officer to investigate is not merely unfortunate. It’s dangerous. The whole purpose of “the Office” is to ensure the veracity & thus the sanctity of the democratic process. And the strength of our democracy is totally dependent upon that process. If people cannot trust the process underpinning our democracy, we’re in serious trouble.
You're right, of course, that it's dangerous to democracy. But I would go further and state that government by referenda (ostensibly) is even more dangerous. Quite simply, it means basing decisions on government policy on lack of credible information, let alone a surfeit of misinformation and disinformation. In this instance, one only needs to look at the way the questions being asked are worded to see that the UCP is looking to justify repressive policies on the basis of public support. That is government by deception.
I wonder if the RCMP are investigating that angle. They are not prohibited from investigating by the court decision and there is every reason to believe criminal acts took place. It is their duty to investigate in my view.
The RCMP can investigate if they decide to. But their resources are limited as well. How many man-hours would it take to transfer the information on name and address of around 300,000 signatures (if the separatists are to be believed about that) into a database, and then to contact each?
Thank you for this. The problem is of course compounded when our flailing Premier adds legitimacy to a totally unproven claim of separatist support by using their number to help justify her own bizarre & confusing plan for a referendum on a referendum on Alberta separation from Canada.
Qualifying a bad number still repeats the number and lodges it in the collective consciousness.
Don’t repeat the number is the only solution. Maybe ‘purported signatures’, ‘claimed signatures’. If the boxes are not opened for counting, so far there are only xx heavy boxes. I remember a few years ago a stack of papers on a desk claiming the number of forms and reports to file for a highway relocation decision. Turned out most of the stack was empty papers. That would be pretty audacious to do here, but until the boxes are opened and pages at least randomly verified, we have xx boxes delivered to Election Alberta.
For added context, as late as last November the APP was claiming to have registered as many as one million supporters, and were assuming all of those would translate into signatures. It’s another figure that cannot be substantiated, but it adds to the skepticism.
Sean Amato pointed out the other day that no one asked for the actual question that Smith has imposed upon us. So if anyone claims 700,000 or even 300,000 signatures, we can respond that the number wanting her referendum is 0.
In the event of fraud or foreign interference, the Stay Free separatist petition needs to be held in safekeeping by investigators. This is not just matter for Elections Alberta. Criminal acts may have been committed. It must not be destroyed pending further investigation by agencies beyond Elections Alberta.
There was a separatist petition station set up at a busy residential intersection in SW Calgary which I drove by many, many times this spring. I only ever saw the lonely, dedicated man sitting by himself under an Alberta flag.
It’s highly unlikely that they reached 300,000. Only a couple of days before I first heard the 300,000 mentioned, there had been several reports that they were well behind where they would have needed to be by deadline. Danielle as well as her UCP party and all the separatism proponents, lie more easily than they breathe. Having repeatedly seen lies and disinformation from all of them, I feel no need to give them the benefit of the doubt, they don’t deserve it.
Karin Desrochers: It does seem very suspicious.
The petition I signed requested your address and phone and email ... the email was like you signed with a pen. What you are describing is called "PROPAGANDA" during war time situation. During war, it is not what is being said that counts but the actions going on around us that speak for itself. I'm old so please bare with me. Canadians are CAPUTURED. We have had an ECONOMIC COUP D'eTAT. We are being bankrupted by design. It will become so evident soon enough so stand by for the truth because TRUTH always wins. Be Blessed.
Patricia Bowman: Electronic fraud didn't exist long ago. That stolen voters list made a bunch of problems we do not need. The UCP have to be sacked. Unfit to govern.
I sent an email to elections Alberta asking if my name is on that list. It should not be.
Somewhat coincidental that the release of the voters list, fitting in with 10X the vote having electors lists as one of their main tactics. Add TBA Davis Parker's disdain for the law and I will not accept their number until each name, not a percentage, each name is verified.
They aren't even counting or confirming the signatures. So there's no way to ever know if your name or even mine was used. And for Smith to say that "I have 700,000 citizens" grouping the Forever Canadian Petition in with their claim is more misleading and outright gaslighting.
Ceedee: You, Tom Wilson, and Kay hit the nail on the head. Bill 54 contributed to this big mess.
There list until until validated is worthless. Having accessing to electoral list and having displayed zero respect for Elections Alberta nor laws, names could have been forged. I would out nothing past them as they have zero integrity..
You've got the two petitions confused. Your name was never released to the separation petition.
Indeed, this manufactured momentum is a well-established rightwing tactic when they know they cannot win on most issues. They hack our system by pushing "direct democracy" and stealing the electoral list, instead of running a separatist party in an election -- which they know they can never win.
And the UCP has deliberately supported this backdoor abuse of process every step of the way, because they know they would also lose an election over separation.
Yet, as you point out, most of the media have neither critically examined nor even acknowledged the separatist claim of "the 300k."
Even more distressing is Premier Smith's claim that she must listen to not only the 300k, but the 400k Forever Canada verified signatures.
These people wanted to PREVENT a referendum, yet she drags them in, asserting that "700,000 Albertans want a referendum" -- one of the most insidious, blatant lies ever uttered by a Canadian politician.
This is as Trump as it gets.
But even CBC allows Premier Smith to gaslight the country on this 700k number without challenge.
We are merely in the earliest stage of this referendum, yet it's already not hard to imagine how Brexit happened.
The media need to step up their game and identify disinformation, because it's coming for us hard and fast.
So far, indie journalist Jen Gerson is a leading voice saying the quiet parts out loud.
Gloves off, everyone!
The Forever Canada petition literally asks for a referendum vote. If 400,000 people didn't read what they signed, that's on them. Their names are on it.
It was a petition asking, "Do you wish Alberta to remain in Canada?"
It was presented to the Legislature for MLAs to vote upon.
400k+ signed the Forever Canada petition to resist a separation referendum.
Premier Smith is co-opting this initiative for literally its opposite intention.
Everyone can see how she is twisting the process.
And everyone knows this is unfair.
Roki Vulovic: It didn't ask that question at all.
It didn’t. You know it didn’t
It's literally on the paperwork handed into Elections Alberta.
No it does NOT. It was to be a Legislative Vote!!!
Generally, once a liar always a liar. They do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. They deserve to be sent packing.
Your characterisation of Sylvestre's assertions as "disinformation" and not "misinformation" is accurate. Misinformation is information that is not entirely accurate. Disinformation is deliberate mistruth (ie: false). Whether Sylvestre actually truly believes what he says is irrelevant. The only relevant information is what is actually the case.
As to verification of the signatures, the recent Court decision prohibits the Office of the Chief Electoral Officer from engaging in that process. Were the Office able to proceed on the process, it would do so by selecting names on the peition at random and contacting the signatories to confirm whether they did indeed sign it. The Office does not have the resources to check every name, nor does it have the resources to check whether any particular name is on the petition. That is, if I were to ask the Office whether my name was on the petition, the Office cannot go through all 300,000+ names and, even if it did, the legislation prohibits it from doing that.
The only way the Office could determine whether there has been any falsification of signatures is if any of the seeded names from the voters list turns up on the petition.
The inability of the Office of the Chief Electoral Officer to investigate is not merely unfortunate. It’s dangerous. The whole purpose of “the Office” is to ensure the veracity & thus the sanctity of the democratic process. And the strength of our democracy is totally dependent upon that process. If people cannot trust the process underpinning our democracy, we’re in serious trouble.
You're right, of course, that it's dangerous to democracy. But I would go further and state that government by referenda (ostensibly) is even more dangerous. Quite simply, it means basing decisions on government policy on lack of credible information, let alone a surfeit of misinformation and disinformation. In this instance, one only needs to look at the way the questions being asked are worded to see that the UCP is looking to justify repressive policies on the basis of public support. That is government by deception.
Brad Orden: The UCP and Danielle Smith were warned by the head of Elections Alberta that Bill 54 would weaken the powers of his office. Here we are.
Couldn’t agree more.
I wonder if the RCMP are investigating that angle. They are not prohibited from investigating by the court decision and there is every reason to believe criminal acts took place. It is their duty to investigate in my view.
I think Elections Alberta is holding the signatures and I don't know if they are able to let the RCMP investigate. Of course Smith won't want that.
The RCMP can investigate if they decide to. But their resources are limited as well. How many man-hours would it take to transfer the information on name and address of around 300,000 signatures (if the separatists are to be believed about that) into a database, and then to contact each?
KRegan: This is what Bill 54 has gotten us.
Spot on.
The separatists may be morons in general, but they have sophisticated coms.
Thank you for this Jared. It's very important.
I hope there are journalists reading your column, but in case not, I will send it to them. We all should.
Thank you for this. The problem is of course compounded when our flailing Premier adds legitimacy to a totally unproven claim of separatist support by using their number to help justify her own bizarre & confusing plan for a referendum on a referendum on Alberta separation from Canada.
Qualifying a bad number still repeats the number and lodges it in the collective consciousness.
Don’t repeat the number is the only solution. Maybe ‘purported signatures’, ‘claimed signatures’. If the boxes are not opened for counting, so far there are only xx heavy boxes. I remember a few years ago a stack of papers on a desk claiming the number of forms and reports to file for a highway relocation decision. Turned out most of the stack was empty papers. That would be pretty audacious to do here, but until the boxes are opened and pages at least randomly verified, we have xx boxes delivered to Election Alberta.
Audacious is what they are! Exactly. Maybe those heavy boxes are full of fake forms with signatures pulled randomly from the stolen electors’s list.
For added context, as late as last November the APP was claiming to have registered as many as one million supporters, and were assuming all of those would translate into signatures. It’s another figure that cannot be substantiated, but it adds to the skepticism.
Sean Amato pointed out the other day that no one asked for the actual question that Smith has imposed upon us. So if anyone claims 700,000 or even 300,000 signatures, we can respond that the number wanting her referendum is 0.
It's all meaningless as Smith can't separate a province from a country without there being legal recourse.
It's all a pysops designed to get Albertans and other Canadians to attack each other.
Meanwhile , she stands back laughing because she created a distraction from her crimes on Public Healthcare, the economy and human rights.
Wake up Canadians.
It's Republican magas, Israel and Russia attacking us.
Get it together!
Inform yourselves.
Take precautions with your data and privacy and FckSmith and her fascist bimbos. Vote them out! Protest!
The list is full of names Like Seymour Butts and Phil McKraken, part time Albertan part time Arizonians? Arizonans?
Spot on!
In the event of fraud or foreign interference, the Stay Free separatist petition needs to be held in safekeeping by investigators. This is not just matter for Elections Alberta. Criminal acts may have been committed. It must not be destroyed pending further investigation by agencies beyond Elections Alberta.
There was a separatist petition station set up at a busy residential intersection in SW Calgary which I drove by many, many times this spring. I only ever saw the lonely, dedicated man sitting by himself under an Alberta flag.